I commented on this on a forum post. After reading the post let me know what you think should be done. Keep in mind that the information is never stored, because as far as I understand it is irrelevant once the battle starts. We can change this, but I want an elegant way to tackle ready, delay, and other conditions that mess with the initiative order.

hmm, I really like the way delay and ready are handled right now actually... You said it never stores the info (I get what you mean, it just takes the initiative rolls and places them in order and then clears it again, right?)

Well all I'd like it to have the numbers saved next to each player/monster so that I don't have to remember what they rolled later on, when I want someone else to come in.

Yes I COULD roll initiative for them all at the beginning, but then I have to continuously skip their turn when it comes to them until they come along (which gets annoying if it's a longer encounter).

This issue is particularly hindersome when you have multiple possible outcomes... ie... if PC chooses this, more of these monsters appear, if PC chooses that more of those monsters appear etc...

So all I'd need is for the roll number (not the total with modifier) to be saved throughout the encounter. (or at least an option to have it saved would be nice)

Thanks,
Yahayata

The easiest work around is to have that added to the note area. I could save the total or roll information somewhere. However how would you add the new combatants to the battle? They are not necessarily in the original initiative order. Lets say we start with A, B, C, D, then B delay to act before D, and on the second round we have: C - 10; B - 15; D - 5; A - 20; Where do you place N - with initiative of 7? Or Y with initiative of 12? Or Z with 19?

My solution is to simply add them where I think they will help the drama more (as was done in D&D 3.5). Place two monster between PC that are happy to be together on the initiative sequence and you change the battle, adding drama. It really doesn't make any difference.

One thing I agree with you is that having to skip combatant that are in order, but not yet "in play" can be bothering (specially if they never really enter battle). Maybe something could be done there so that we can "auto-skip" character that haven't appeared yet.

Notice that while we could add this value somewhere, if we come up with a nice solution for adding combatant in the middle of the battle with initiative, I would love to implement that. My objection is that "roll initiative when ..." is simply wrong in the round robin way. Initiative is used to sort and the beginning of the battle then it has no meaning anymore. Lets try to figure out a way to solve this automatically.

I have come up with a solution (theoretical for the moment) that should work. It is based on the following. Combat sequence is the result of the initial sorting and then some occasional changes due to reordering, delaying and ready actions. Aside from this there is the rotation of the round robin.

If we keep the initial order and all the changes (expressed as X goes to the position before Y) we should be able to add new combatant to the initial sequence and reapply the changes.

To make this clear, let's use the example on the comment #3. Initial sequence: A - 20, B - 15, C - 10, D - 5. Then we have the change B before D. And rotate till C is in first. Now we want to add: Z - 19, Y - 12, and N - 7. The new initial sequence would be: A - 20, Z - 19, B - 15, Y - 12, C - 10, N - 7, D - 5. We now apply the change (B before D), to get: A, Z, Y, C, N, B, D. And rotate to bring C to the front, getting final sequence of: C, N, B, D, A, Z, Y.

That said that is a major change to the combat sequencer, and will take some time to get it done. It may take some time to get done, since we have to refactor test, change the way changes are applied to the sequence and re-implement the logic. On the up side I think this will make VCC more flexible and compliant to the 4E adventures' "roll initiative when ...".

well, the other option is you could just show it... then we could add the new monster manually with their new roll.

But hey, if you want to do it that way that would be awesome! :D

After V1.0 come out I want to tackle this issue. However I still have a question on how to present the input for new combatant. Let's say we have the following use case:

You add a party, then a party of monster, then start combat. The normal initiative rolling windows appear. Battle begin, you decide to and another set of monsters.

How should the add be handled? When you add/load the new party we have to: a) determine if they should go to the reserve? b) Roll initiative for all of them?

Also if the monster is in the reserve does it have a initiative roll? Or should it be placed straight into battle where the DM chooses?

I need to have a better idea of how to implement the handling of new combatants (in terms of user interface). A clear simple way would be best.

I believe the dm should add the new combatants wherever is good for the story/fight (ie. leave/add them in reserve). But if it is possible to give them an initiative roll also then it may be beneficial for some dm's style. I would see what other people think. Maybe make a poll in the forum.. My personal choice is just to add them from reserve when I see fit.. In other words, I feel that the way it currently works is the clearest and simplest.

The original request is to have initiative after combat begin. I can see valid points for both approach. Adding from the reserve allows DM to build drama. However if you have to add a whole party and you don't care about the order it may be good to roll. There are several situations like that in Keep on the Shadowfell.

If we change some of the inner logic as per issue #62: Tighter control of Rest, Start Combat and End Combat, it would make sense to do the following (just an idea):

1. Load parties (outside of a combat);
2. Start combat and roll initiative;
3. You load a new party (or add them to the battle from the party editor).
4. At this point the inner tracker notes that these new combatant don't have associated initiative and prompt the DM for two thing:
   1. Whether to place them in the reserve;
   2. Initiative roll;
5. For those that have rolled the initiative and are not in the reserve place them according to comment #4.
6. If the DM takes one from the reserve, he can choose to add them to the top (as it works now) or to add them according to their initiave roll.

This is just a rough idea. And will require quite a lot of work because the tracker can't currently ask for information while processing a command. This feature will be needed by #65: Automatic Sustain Reminder and some improved automation. So it's a matter of getting the infrastructure in place. Unless we can come up with a simpler system.

Will implement as described above.

Implemented on version 1.3.0.

The current version does not allow users to move directly from reserve to the next up position (the behavior of previous versions).

Automatically closed -- issue fixed for two weeks with no activity.